Legislature(1993 - 1994)
10/12/1993 02:00 PM House TMB
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
MILITARY SCHOOLS TASK FORCE
PUBLIC HEARING
October 12, 1993
2:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Mulder
Representative Martin
Bonnie Carroll
Captain Dennis Porter
Colonel George Vakalis
Lt. Colonel David Melcher
Janet Stokesbury
Nancy Miller
Patty Norheim
Sue Wilken
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Leman
Representative Willis
Barbara Martin
CALENDAR
Third Public Hearing of the Military Schools Task Force
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES
P.O. Box 56622
North Pole, Alaska 99705
SCOTT JOHNSON, Architect
Fairbanks North Star Borough School District
P.O. Box 71267
Fairbanks, Alaska 99707
JOE RYAN, Staff
Representative Al Vezey's Office
119 N. Cushman Street
Suite 211
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
Observer
DAVID SKIDMORE, Staff
Senator Steve Frank's Office
119 N. Cushman Street
Suite 211
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
Observer
LT. COL. STEVE BOYCE
2258 Central Avenue
Eielson Air Force Base
Fairbanks, Alaska 99702
Observer
LEN MACKLER
Fairbanks North Star Borough School District
1300 Minnie Street
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
Observer
DEBORAH LUPER, Staff
Senator Loren Leman's Office
716 W. Fourth Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
Observer
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-4, SIDE A
Number 024
REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER called the meeting to order at
2:20 p.m. He requested those present at the meeting
introduce themselves. In addition to Representative Mulder,
those present in Fairbanks were Representative Jeannette
James, Lt. Colonel David Melcher, Captain Dennis Porter, Sue
Wilken, Lisa Fitzpatrick, Janet Stokesbury, Nancy Miller,
and Bonnie Carroll.
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER welcomed Representative Terry Martin
and Senator Loren Leman's aide, Deborah Luper, both of whom
were present by telephonic hook-up in Anchorage, Colonel
George Vakalis who was present by teleconference hook-up in
Juneau, and Patty Norheim, Chair of the State Board of
Education who was present by teleconference from Petersburg.
Number 058
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER requested the task force address its
strategy and that it finalize a list of recommendations for
inclusion in a draft piece of legislation in order to have a
plan to be considered and approved at the final meeting on
October 25, 1993.
Number 086
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked if any one had any comments or
corrections regarding the minutes from the September 30,
1993, meeting.
Number 097
BONNIE CARROLL, GOVERNOR'S APPOINTEE, moved that the
minutes be accepted as prepared.
CAPTAIN PORTER, ALCOM, seconded the motion.
Hearing no objections, REPRESENTATIVE MULDER ruled that the
minutes be adopted.
Number 104
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER requested the Fairbanks North Star
Borough School District provide a final assessment of the
costs associated with the base school upgrades.
Number 111
SUE WILKEN, GOVERNOR'S APPOINTEE, on behalf of the Fairbanks
North Star Borough, responded that the report presented to
the task force on the base school tour earlier that morning
represented the school district's final assessment. She
noted the projected total cost which appears on this list is
lower than the projected total cost figure which had
previously been presented to the task force. She indicated
this figure represents the school district's recommendation
only - it was not the board's recommendation. She commented
that the Fairbanks North Star Borough was not willing to
take title until deficiencies are corrected.
Number 148
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER opened the floor to questions.
Number 153
CAPTAIN PORTER questioned whether it was feasible for the
Fairbanks North Star Borough School Board to take possession
once funding was obligated rather than waiting until
completion of the work itself. He voiced his concern that
this timing is crucial to the success of the transfer
process.
Number 169
COLONEL VAKALIS, GARRISON COMMANDER, FORT RICHARDSON,
emphasized the key term here is the word obligation - the
money must actually be obligated, not just committed.
Number 175
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER agreed and asked Colonel Vakalis for
any suggestions regarding how such a requirement should be
worded.
Number 188
COLONEL VAKALIS explained that the federal government
commits money for a particular project, but that a
commitment can be retracted at any time. However, he noted
that once a contract is signed, the money is obligated and
it is very difficult to retract the commitment at that
point.
Number 202
CAPTAIN PORTER proposed that with respect to the $4.9
million committed for Ursa Major, once the Anchorage School
District spends the first ten percent, that would be an
appropriate time for ownership transfer.
Number 220
REPRESENTATIVE TERRY MARTIN compared the instant situation
to the federal monies which the state receives for highways.
He suggested the task force put together a packet and try to
get as much money as possible obligated by the United States
Department of Defense as a strategy to get the state
legislature to come up with matching funds.
Number 280
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER summarized for those on teleconference
that the total amount of money requested by the Fairbanks
North Star Borough School District is $20,405,563.
Number 294
JANET STOKESBURY, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, ANCHORAGE SCHOOL
DISTRICT, stated since the last meeting, the Anchorage
School District staff had reviewed the original list and
scaled back its estimates. Excluding Ursa Major which is
already funded, the total comes to $27.9 million for the six
facilities. The school district has not contacted the
school board as yet, but it has contacted its legal counsel
to ascertain whether the school district has any obligations
to the Anchorage taxpayers which might present an impediment
to the transfer. However, the answer to that query has not
been determined yet.
Number 324
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked Janet Stokesbury and Sue Wilken,
in their experience dealing with the federal government,
whether the federal government would accept the project list
as put together by the school districts.
Number 332
MS. STOKESBURY responded, using the Ursa Major experience as
an example, that the federal government did accept their
numbers in that case.
Number 347
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER summarized, for the benefit of those
on teleconference, the cost increases on the handout
distributed by Janet Stokesbury. Combined with the
Fairbanks North Star Borough cost estimates, the grand total
is $48,298,702.
Number 373
MS. STOKESBURY explained that the Anchorage School District
numbers are projected out to 1994. They include a seven
percent inflation factor.
Number 378
CAPTAIN PORTER explained that the Fairbanks North Star
Borough used the same inflation factor in computing their
numbers. Therefore, all of the estimates are good until
1994.
Number 390
COLONEL VAKALIS noted the total is about nine millions less
than at the last meeting.
Number 392
MS. STOKESBURY explained that the school district took a
number of the program needs out of the original estimate.
Number 395
COLONEL VAKALIS questioned whether the same criteria had
been used in arriving at these factors as those used in
arriving at the figures for Ursa Major.
Number 403
MS. STOKESBURY said yes, and qualified her answer by stating
these figures may even be less, relatively speaking, for the
reason that the Ursa Major numbers were based on a twenty-
six student classroom model and these numbers are based on a
higher classroom size.
Number 408
CAPTAIN PORTER commented it was his understanding that while
the scope of work approved by the United States Department
of Education (USDOE) with respect to Ursa Major changed, the
actual dollar amount that the USDOE agreed to pay did not
change.
Number 424
REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES questioned why the federal
government needs to approve the scope of work set forth on
the school districts' project lists.
Number 431
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER explained that there may be a
discrepancy between what the task force considers to be
necessary upgrades and what the federal government considers
necessary.
Number 441
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN indicated that, according to Senator
Leman, Senator Stevens' office related to him that an
additional $10 million was added to the United States
Department of Defense (USDOD) budget for schools and
maintenance. The USDOD committee goes to conference next
week at which time it should be determined how the money
will be spent.
Number 465
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER concurred that it was his
understanding that this money had been added to the USDOD
budget and hopefully Alaska would net a significant
percentage of that money. He also added it was his
understanding that $53 million had been added to the impact
aid budget.
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked Ms. Stokesbury whether there is
anything the task force can do to help speed the process
along.
Number 489
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN responded that the task force needs to
establish project priorities.
Number 525
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES noted that the legislature did
appropriate $600,000 for the plans for the new school.
Since the federal government has already committed $3.9
million for this school, to avoid losing this money, she
suggested that perhaps attention should be focused on this
project by diverting money from this year's appropriations
to Fairbanks schools and through next year's legislative
process.
Number 540
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN commented he thought it likely that
there would be a shared effort amongst legislators.
Number 550
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said he thought the best approach was
to shoot for the entire package.
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN said he thought that was a good idea.
Number 583
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES again reiterated that it is important
to focus on the new Eielson elementary school.
Number 592
CAPTAIN PORTER agreed that the new Eielson elementary school
ought to be a task force priority. He further agreed that
the task force ought to seek a fifty-fifty split of the
total funding necessary between the federal government and
the state.
Number 610
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER raised the question of conditioning
the state funding upon a matching federal commitment within
a certain period of time such as five years.
Number 629
COLONEL VAKALIS stated he feels the task force needs to
pursue the entire package of funding as opposed to
piecemealing it over the years. He noted the existing
problems are only going to be exacerbated over time which
will result in additional costs.
Number 640
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN agreed that the task force should seek
funding for the entire package, but that it should be
prepared to accept less. He also wanted to know why Senator
Frank was not at this meeting along with any other
legislators who have affected districts. He also noted that
it is necessary to get the Hickel Administration involved in
the base school project.
Number 658
COLONEL VAKALIS agreed, but reiterated that it is necessary
to force the issue of what it is going to cost overall so
that money can be allocated, even if over a period of time.
Number 670
COLONEL MELCHER, U.S. ARMY, commented that Arctic Light and
Ladd elementary schools provide an example of the federal
government and the state working together. He added that he
feels the task force should pursue a fifty-fifty funding
split.
Number 678
CAPTAIN PORTER agreed that it is necessary to pursue the
entire package, but the state needs to be willing to accept
that that money will come in over a period of years.
COLONEL VAKALIS signed off the meeting to catch a plane.
Number 686
NANCY MILLER, PARENT ADVOCACY COMMITTEE, suggested the task
force include the money the state has already received for
Ursa Major in the total funding request and then count that
money towards the federal government's contribution.
Number 692
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN thought this might be a good idea to
motivate the state to commit resources. He indicated that
Commissioner Covey had previously indicated to him the state
Department of Education would be willing to get involved.
TAPE 93-4, SIDE B
Number 001
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER stated that one of the task force's
strategies should be to secure inclusion in the Governor's
capital request for funding. He asked Patty Norheim whether
she would be willing to carry this banner on behalf of the
task force.
PATTY NORHEIM, CHAIR, STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION, said the
school board would be meeting in Fairbanks at the end of
October and that might be a good time for the board to get a
look at the Fairbanks base schools.
Number 025
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER noted that Ms. Wilken was nodding her
head in agreement and added that this was a good idea.
MS. NORHEIM noted that the Governor has been very committed
to education projects.
Number 037
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER noted that Senator Frank's staff
person just entered the room.
Number 046
CAPTAIN PORTER asked Ms. Carroll her opinion of the
Governor's views. She indicated she felt the Governor was
very supportive of the task force's mission and she would be
happy to take the task force's proposal to him.
Number 061
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked whether the task force wanted to
adopt the school districts' estimates regarding the total
cost of the upgrades.
Number 072
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN questioned whether there were other
schools in the state that ought to be included in this
package.
Number 080
CAPTAIN PORTER stated it was his understanding that all of
the schools facing this problem were included on the
existing lists.
Number 124
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER concluded that the task force wished
to accept the cost estimates proposed by the school
districts and therefore, these numbers constituted the task
force's starting point.
He then asked the task force what it wished to recommend as
a funding source.
Number 135
MS. MILLER questioned whether any one had been in contact
with the USDOE.
Number 144
CAPTAIN PORTER indicated there has been little discussion at
his request. It was his intent that the task force come up
with its own recommendation to present to the USDOE rather
than have the USDOE present a plan to the task force.
Number 162
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN agreed that this was a sensible
approach.
Number 229
MS. NORHEIM signed off.
Number 247
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked the task force for its position
regarding the percentage split between the federal
government and the state.
Number 254
CAPTAIN PORTER moved that the task force adopt proposed
legislation which would enable the state and the federal
government to each pay fifty percent of the total sum of
$48,298,702 for the immediate upgrade and transfer of the
following base schools: Aurora Elementary, John F. Kennedy,
Mount Iliamna Elementary, Mt. Spurr Elementary, Orion
Elementary, Ursa Minor Elementary, Ben Eielson Jr./Sr. High
School, Anderson Elementary, and the creation of a new
elementary school to replace Taylor and Pennell Elementary
schools. Captain Porter further moved that part of that
funding include the $3.9 million and the $4.9 already
committed by the federal government and the respective
school districts assume immediate ownership of these schools
upon the obligation of monies to bring them up to standards.
Number 282
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER requested the motion be broken down
into two separate motions.
Number 286
MS. STOKESBURY noted the inclusion of the $4.9 and $3.9
million brings the total up to $57 million.
Number 294
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER questioned whether these monies should
be included in the total since they have already been
obligated.
Number 304
MS. MILLER stated the reason she felt these monies should be
included is that it demonstrates that the federal government
is coming forward to meet its obligations.
Number 311
CAPTAIN PORTER questioned whether these monies should be
included to avoid any quarrel over whether the state has
already met its entire obligation by appropriating monies
for Arctic Light and Ladd Elementary Schools. He suggested
that rather than looking at the past, the task force focus
its attention on the future. He did note that the $3.9
million for Ben Eielson should be included.
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said the motion could be drafted so as
to include the $3.9.
Number 334
CAPTAIN PORTER made a new motion that the task force
recommend legislation that would allow for a joint venture
between the state and the USDOE or USDOD to each put up
fifty percent of $53 million dollars.
Number 344
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES commented that it might be appropriate
to list out the priorities by year, even if this is not
included in the legislation per se.
Number 356
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER noted that from the state
legislature's perspective, it would be necessary to
appropriate the entire amount of funding in one year
because, by Constitution, one legislature cannot obligate
future legislatures.
Number 369
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES questioned, since the state has no
control over the federal government, what might be the task
force's back up position if the federal government does not
come up with its share of the money.
Number 374
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN answered there is going to be a fair
amount of give and take later, but all the task force can do
is to request funding and wait and see.
MS. CARROLL stated that once the task force gets its
proposal together, it needs to approach the United States
Congressional delegation in a lobbying effort.
Number 404
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER questioned whether the task force
wanted to put percentage figures on the requested
contributions of the state and federal government, or
whether it should allow the state and the federal government
come up with percentages.
Number 408
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN said he thought the task force should
put a fifty-fifty percentage split in its proposal.
Number 415
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER requested that Captain Porter restate
his motion.
Number 417
CAPTAIN PORTER moved that the state match the federal
government in funding the base schools, regardless of the
funding source.
Number 444
MS. CARROLL noted this is also a project of great interest
to Senator Dole and there are a number of funding avenues
which need to be explored.
Number 451
COLONEL MELCHER commented that it helps in negotiating with
the federal government if the state is willing to
appropriate the necessary money.
MS. MILLER stated the money needs to be appropriated because
its the right thing to do.
Number 468
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES noted that we need to remember how
important the military presence is to the state and we need
to send a message that the military children will be
educated in the same manner as all other children.
Number 475
MS. CARROLL observed there are a number of states that feel
the same way, but what makes Alaska unique is its importance
as a military site. She felt the task force needs to
capitalize on that.
Number 484
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked if there were any objections to
the motion made by Captain Porter. Hearing no objections,
he moved that the motion passes unanimously.
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER then summarized the purpose of the
task force as one of identifying the needs of the schools
and the funding sources available to meet those needs, and
to then lobby the appropriate authorities to secure that
funding. He indicated it was hoped that by the next
committee meeting, the task force would have a piece of
draft legislation with a list of findings and an
appropriation bill along with the backup supporting
materials. He then requested the task force members
identify any things that should be included in the bill.
Number 509
REPRESENTATIVE MARTIN commented that he hadn't been thinking
of hazardous waste as an issue up until now, but he raised
the question of whether there was any known contamination
which might make hazardous waste cleanup monies a viable
avenue for seeking funding.
Number 536
MS. CARROLL questioned the arrangement between the federal
government and the Office of Military and Veteran's Affairs
regarding funding.
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER noted the federal government pays
approximately 85 percent of the state's military and
veteran's affairs budget. However, most of that goes to
personnel payroll. It would probably be a far stretch to
get construction dollars.
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER then asked again for any suggestions
about information which should be included in the draft
legislation.
Number 569
COLONEL MELCHER recommended the school districts assume
ownership of the schools at the point the money is obligated
both from the federal government and the state.
Number 578
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked Ms. Stokesbury if there is any
way the task force can have any input into the transfer
process.
Number 581
MS. STOKESBURY stated there is ongoing discussion about when
ownership of Ursa Major will be transferred.
Number 589
COLONEL MELCHER stated that it was his understanding the
obligation of the money occurs when the school district
receives it. That is the optimum time to effect a transfer.
Number 593
MS. STOKESBURY indicated that she had gotten clarification
from Laurel Cornish of the USDOE office regarding the
exchange of funds.
Number 602
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked what the task force could do to
effect a transfer at this point. He asked to have the
strongest wording possible included in the proposed
legislation.
Number 614
CAPTAIN PORTER suggested the most resistance was likely to
come from the constituents and therefore, any support the
task force might be able to give the school districts in
this regard would be an aid in dealing with this potential
roadblock.
Number 622
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said the task force should show a
united front with the school districts on this point.
Number 628
COLONEL MELCHER moved that the task force adopt language to
the effect that the local school districts accept control
and title at the earliest possible time that federal monies
appear to be forthcoming or obligated in whatever terms are
used at the federal level, and then proceed with their
repair or refurbishment as expeditiously as possible.
Number 638
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked if there was any discussion on
the motion.
Number 640
CAPTAIN PORTER added that to the strongest legal extent
possible, the wording should help the school districts fight
off any backlash.
Number 651
COLONEL MELCHER added, the task force's responsibilities do
not end with the proposed legislation, but everyone needs to
take this proposed legislation and lobby it before their
respective bodies.
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER agreed and asked for any additional
suggestions, comments or objections to the motion. Hearing
no objections, he ruled that the motion carries.
Number 668
SCOTT JOHNSON, FAIRBANKS NORTH STAR BOROUGH PUBLIC WORKS
DEPARTMENT, noted that the since the Fairbanks North Star
Borough owns the school facilities, perhaps they should be
consulted before being asked to take over these facilities.
Number 675
MS. WILKEN agreed with Scott that all the major players need
to be talking, but she added that the role of this task
force is to get the ball rolling.
Number 695
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER agreed too, and added the immediate
task is to get the information compiled and then to market
it.
TAPE 93-5, SIDE A
Number 004
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER noted that the next meeting is October
25, 1993, in Anchorage. At that time, he indicated the task
force would hopefully be presented with draft legislation.
Number 008
LISA FITZPATRICK asked whether the task force wanted a
preliminary report for the task force's review or just the
draft legislation.
Number 011
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER answered the preliminary report was
essentially the same thing as the draft legislation which
will be backed up by the information already gathered.
Number 026
REPRESENTATIVE MULDER adjourned the meeting at 3:56 p.m.
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